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Request: More information about PoP status
![[nl]](/s/countries/nl.gif) Shadow Hawkins on Saturday, 12 March 2011 20:15:33
[admin edit: moved to subforum + updated title to reflect content]
I am very grateful for the free IPv6 service and I do not require 100% uptime. However, more information about the expected duration of the down time of a PoP, even if it is only "unknown", or "still investigating", would be an improvement. The frustration for me was not so much in the PoP being down, but in not knowing (even roughly) when it might come back up, or what was happening, and not knowing if someone else knew...
Again, I am not complaining, just mentioning a thing that possibly "might be done differently or better, something that might be really useful to have", or something which "could be done better or in a different way which would improve the experience for all users".
SixXS: What can be done better?
However, more information about the expected duration of the down time of a PoP, even if it is only "unknown", or "still investigating", would be an improvement.
There is no SLA, as such, the only answer to the 'how long till it is resolved' question is 'soon'.
The frustration for me was not so much in the PoP being down, but in not knowing (even roughly) when it might come back up,
Well, we don't know it either, that all depends on the problem to be resolved.
or what was happening, and not knowing if someone else knew...
When the SixXS system notices that a PoP is not available (unreachable, packets are not flowing, less than 80% of the tunnels online, and some other metrics), the system automatically indicates this inside the system, the website and robot then notice this and notice it there, the system also notifies the SixXS Staff and the PoP administrators by email and even SMS where possible, thus they are directly aware of this situation. The problem is then investigated and resolved as soon as possible.
PoPs should not go down in the first place, which is the case for most of them; also if one would look at it, over the several years that most PoPs have been running already they have a higher than 99.99% availability (that is that they where able to forward tunneled packets succesfully), as such, I really don't see why so many people (some of the mails to info@sixxs.net are extremely amusing; especially the ones who claim to know a lot more about SixXS than us) are complaining about a free service, provided in the spare time of the SixXS Staff, supported by several awesome companies who are providing excellent services. Sometimes things break, please, live with it; the world doesn't die because of it.
I am also really wondering how the people who are complaining so loud to us, would complain to their ISP's when their DSL/cable link goes down, especially as they are paying for those.
SixXS: What can be done better?
Shadow Hawkins on Sunday, 14 September 2008 12:59:42
I think the point is not so much that most POPs have a good uptime. The point I made in the past in this regard is that some POPs are most definitly not getting near the average uptime of most other POPs. And their time to fix is rather long.
I think I would qualify it as unsatisfying. Given that it is all run by volunteers makes me understand part of the issue. But if a POP is known to be less reliable it would be nice if alternative POPs would be available.
BTW: If someone happens to know of a datacenter with IPv6 connectivity in the Rotterdam area I would love to hear about it. Even when the service is on-demand-after-having-brought-a-chocolate-cake.
SixXS: What can be done better?
And their time to fix is rather long
I think you don't understand: If you require an SLA and perfect uptimes then go somewhere else where you most likely have to pay for it.
But if a POP is known to be less reliable it would be nice if alternative POPs would be available.
You are stating that PoPs are "unreliable", which metrics do you apply to your statement to make it "unreliable" ? Fun part here: the moment you specify these metrics you have specified an SLA.
BTW: If someone happens to know of a datacenter with IPv6 connectivity in the Rotterdam area I would love to hear about it. Even when the service is on-demand-after-having-brought-a-chocolate-cake.
There are several ISP's in the area of Rotterdam that should be able to provide this, Grafix being one of them. Best is to look in your local business directory for ISPs and call them up and then ask.
SixXS: What can be done better?
![[us]](/s/countries/us.gif) Shadow Hawkins on Monday, 15 September 2008 03:01:33I am also really wondering how the people who are complaining so loud to us, would complain to their ISP's when their DSL/cable link goes down, especially as they are paying for those.
As front line technical support for a national ISP in the US I can tell you. It's a mixed bag. Most are along the lines of people here "I know you're working on the problem, just want to know how long I should expect it to be down." Usually very polite about the whole thing, with the added exception that they want a service credit as they are paying for it. Then there are the ones that start off screaming the moment the phone is answered, throwing around their supposed background in networking and how unacceptable the down time is (keeping in mind that more often than not this group of people are suffering from either connection issues due to wiring in their building, or user error). The call usually ends with treat of litigation and usually a few insults.
So yeah, this is a rather polite group you have here Mr. Massar. Of course they aren't paying for the link, so who knows how they would respond if they were. I like to think most people are nice when left to their own devices, so I'll say this lot would be cool headed. Because I have the luxury of doing so. :)
SixXS: What can be done better?
Is this the McDonalds? No, thus don't use the Mister part please, there are no differences between people here.
this is a rather polite group you have here
The part that you see here on the forum mostly yes, the part that gets send to info@sixxs.net, far from. These people should be happy that we don't publish the emails that are sent to us.
If they where paying for it, and if their contract had a clause that gave them a right, then they would have every right to do so and things would probably be arranged differently. As that is not the case though, it won't be happening.
SixXS: What can be done better?
Shadow Hawkins on Sunday, 14 September 2008 18:18:17
Adding an option for the pop owners to supply some feedback / comment about their pop might be nice. A good example of what this can be used for is downtime. If a pop goes down the owner can put in some comment like "all the smoke escaped from the cpu, a new cpu filled with fresh smoke is shipped and expected somewhere this week."
SixXS: What can be done better?
Why do you think that they can't do this? :)
Any user can post in the forum and in the ticket system.
You are btw defining ETA's there, that implies you want SLA's. Do you?
SixXS: What can be done better?
Shadow Hawkins on Sunday, 14 September 2008 21:09:12
Good question, I haven't seen posts from the owners, maybe they are afraid of us common users ;) But the first place I would look for information about a pop is on the pop page.
About the ETA, yes, I demand SLA's! Seriously I was just giving an example. An SLA would demand a TA not an ETA actually and in this example the arriving of a smoke filled cpu is just an indicator when a next step can be taken, not when the problem will be solved. It's a free service and I recognize it as such. The example could just as well have ended with "We are fresh out of smoke so unless someone is prepared to make us a fire we are done hosting this pop..."
SixXS: What can be done better?
maybe they are afraid of us common users
No, that is not the thing. And there have been posts of a few actually. The thing is that SixXS handles the users for them, therefor freeing them of that hassle. We talk to you, you talk to us.
But the first place I would look for information about a pop is on the pop page.
Which will indicate a nice big fat "Down", and has a link to the Tickets tracker for all other reported problems which might affect what the PoP is doing, but does not make it "Down".
As for there not being any smoke anymore, when that happens or we suspect that that is the case, we will directly announce (email+news) that and offer all users of said PoP to move over to another PoP. See the news pages for the couple of instances where this happened.
SixXS: What can be done better? The S-word
Shadow Hawkins on Monday, 15 September 2008 09:41:04
Before we get to Service Level Agreements, it is productive to talk about Service Level Expectations. Whenever I discuss services with a contractor or potential supplier, we go through a sometimes lengthy phase in which we discuss the expectations that we have of each other's service. (yes, also the client delivers some service to the provider, e.g. traffic estimates).
A typical statement would be: if such and such breaks, what would you do?
Sometimes we go into production without an SLA, because the technology is insufficiently mature to enter into end-to-end SLAs. In that case it is pretty relevant to at least discuss expectations.
These expectations give the other party insight into what is or will be feasible. It can be a bit scary to give this insight into your internal affairs, but it is the way forward to technological innovation.
I wrote about this in more detail
here (unfortunately in dutch, bribe me to translate it).
A bit of fun with SLAs:
on my blog
SixXS: What can be done better? The S-word
Before we get to Service Level Agreements, it is productive to talk about Service Level Expectations.
You should expect that it is working and when it is not then that it will be resolved soon. That is it. We can't guarantee a thing.
As for an SLA, we can't give you one when the service comes from SixXS. We can help you get to providers who can give you one though.
Note that this is splattered over this page already a couple of times and also included in the FAQ and on several other pages of the website.
SixXS: What can be done better? The S-word
Shadow Hawkins on Friday, 05 November 2010 13:20:39
I am not looking for a SLA. However, more information, if available, would be helpful. For example, when nlams05 was down in December 2006, described here, one had some idea what one was waiting for. Now nlams05 has been down for weeks, and it is considered an invalid issue. (Looking at the description of ticket status, I guess the status might be Remote problem , or also might be Reopened .)
SixXS: What can be done better? The S-word
Shadow Hawkins on Saturday, 20 September 2008 08:01:07
I like the way this issue was handled.
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![[ch]](/s/countries/ch.gif)
on Saturday, 13 September 2008 14:53:15
Posting is only allowed when you are